The Four Hour Body (Exclusive Video) The 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman


In the next this post I’m going to feature a free interview between NY Times best-selling author Tim Ferriss. (record with evernote)
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Mobile Workout
Secret System
- How he got super-strong with just a few sets & reps each week
- The one type of alcohol he says is OK on a fat loss diet
- And much, much more
By the way, you really need to get this book…it covers fat loss, secrets to amazing sex, better sleep, running long distances faster (without a lot of running), getting stronger, amazing sex, and becoming a better athlete…oh yeah, and secrets to amazing sex. There might also be a massive sextion devoted to better sex. I think.
Hey everyone, and I have a special guest with me today. He is a New York Times best-selling author and the author of a new book called The 4-Hour Body. His name is Tim Ferriss. Tim, welcome to the call.
Tim Ferriss: Thank you for having me.
And let’s maybe just start with how you would describe this new book. Is it some kind of owner’s manual to improving your health and fitness? You have the word “superhuman” on the book, is it more than just health and fitness?
Tim Ferriss: The book is really, the way I describe it – keep in mind, I live in Silicon Valley – but it is a hacker’s guide to the human body. So if you’ve ever seen a choose your own adventure book where you can choose your own path based on what you want to do, what you want to experience, I’ve spent the last three years testing everything from maximal muscular gain to strength, ultra-endurance, sex, sleep with some of the best scientists in the world.
And the book, the subtitle I think is a good description which is – so it’s “The 4-Hour Body”, and then “An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-loss, Incredible Sex and Becoming Superhuman”. The reason uperhuman is in there, which you mentioned – the original title of the book was “Becoming Superhuman” – and the superhuman really just refers to one of two things.
People doing things, accomplishing things they think are impossible, like pulling 400-500 pounds off the ground if they’re currently at 200 or running 50-100 miles or just losing the last 10 pounds of fat, or things that most people consider superhuman. So a lot of those things would also fall in that category.
So for a person who’s only ever run 5K, running a 10K might be a very big deal to them, and it should be. But, also in the broader world if you run 50K to most people that’s impossible. So really teaching people how to accomplish the impossible in very small steps.
Tim Ferriss: Wow.
Yes, hopefully you’re not mad at me.
Tim Ferriss: No.
I skipped over the running chapter a little. I definitely read the sex chapter. That sounds like it was a heck of a lot of fun, but we’re going to leave readers to read the sex chapter on their own.
Tim Ferriss: Yes. Some chapters were more fun to research than others. That’s true.
I’m sure they were, yes. So even before this book you were definitely running toe-to-toe with the Dos Equis guy, being a candidate for the world’s most interesting man. And you certainly even did a whole lot more experiments in this one. And you mention the term “experimental lifestyle”, kind of an introduction to the book. Can you explain what that is and why it’s so important?
Tim Ferriss: Absolutely. So the book is really also a guide to becoming a good self-experimenter. That doesn’t mean you do anything dangerous. It doesn’t mean you do anything extensive. It just means that rather than relying on an annual checkup or two visits to your doctor per year as an indicator of health and longevity and all those things, instead of relying on just memory alone if you’re going to the gym naturally do a few simple things track a few simple variables to figure out exactly how you personally can get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.
And to give you an example of how that can work, how quickly that can work, for me personally when I was able to figure out exactly how many rest days I required, the range of motion, I required to improve my deadlifts – I put on about 150 pounds, actually closer to 165, in the span of less than six months. And it could have happened much faster. And that type of progress is not impossible.
Yes. You also have people who have never run more than five miles who you get to 50 miles, mountainous ultra-marathons in 12 weeks, which I know sounds again impossible, but it’s not.
Tim Ferriss: The only way that you get to that point is by doing small experiments. And there are a lot of tools that are available. There are free tools. Certainly online you can go to sites like patients like Me where you can look at people who are replicating clinical trials and sharing data, but instead of 10 people in a study you have a thousand people on a website. Alternatively, you can look at tools like Zeo, for example. Zeo is a device. I think it costs about $200, that you put next to your bed, and you wear a headband and it will track all of your brainwaves during a sleep, or before sleep, so you can identify exactly if you’re improving your sleep and how you’re improving your sleep by changing diet and things like that. So by doing that I figured out how you can use cold or saturated fat to improve the quality of recovery during sleep, for example. And these are all really easy to do.
So the experimental lifestyle certainly applied to my first book. The 4-Hour Workweek. And most people know me for time management productivity, but I’ve tracked almost every workout I’ve done since age 18 so my obsession with the physical tracking predates the productivity work, the work at least, by at least a decade. And the experimental lifestyle is going into anything you want to accomplish, any goal, and testing assumptions and tracking a few important things. And I think that applies to relationships, that applies to business, and it certainly applies to the human body.
Now when someone’s doing a fat-loss program, and we’re going to talk about that quite a bit, would you have any recommendations of some of the most important things for someone to track during their fat-loss program that will guide them, that will really keep them within the course of success?
Tim Ferriss: Absolutely. I think the first and most important – there are actually two things. Well, I’ll mention three actually. So the first, and this is more of a baseline than a measurement, but it’s getting a before photograph. Most people who want to improve their condition do not get before photographs because they’re embarrassed, or they dislike it for whatever reason.
If you look at, and this is something I did, view an analysis of the transformational challenges that have been done in the last decade or so. And you look at the most successful, like Body for Life, and you look at the winners the one consistent factor or element. Sometimes their workouts are different, sometimes their diets are different, but they all use their before photographs very effectively, maybe putting them on the refrigerator, etc. So that would be step number 1. And the photographs are really important, the visual part of it.
Step number 2 would be, and this is something that even very intelligent people miss, is body composition. So you don’t want to track weight alone if you’re losing fat because it’s very common. Let’s say even if you’re not doing resistance training, if you increase your protein intake because you’re removing refined carbohydrates let’s say or starches. There’s a very, very high likelihood that you’re going to add some muscle mass. And if you’re only tracking your weight it can appear to be a plateau when, in fact, you’re actually losing a tremendous amount of fat, two to five pounds a week or more in some cases. That’s step number 2.
And number 3, for the same reason if you’re on a budget and let’s just say you can’t get body composition analysis, like caliper analysis. I recommend a few other things like Bod Pod of you have access to it. Certainly, in the U.S. it’s not very difficult. Or DXA scan for example. If you don’t have access to these things you can use circumference measurements. So you could use a simple tape measure to measure around the middle of your thighs, waist, the widest point at abdomen and let’s just say upper arms and the bi bicep is all pretty easy to measure.
And what you’ll find is that, even if your weight doesn’t move, if you’re losing inches in the right places that signifies that you’re losing body fat, particularly if you’re still maintaining your strength. So those would be a few points that I think are very commonly overlooked, even by very smart people when they’re tracking fat loss.
Yes. I remember in the book that you mentioned your father really regrets not having taken those measurements. And we hear that quite a bit from the people in our transformation contests as well.
Tim Ferriss: Yes, absolutely. I mean it’s extremely common. And the other thing my dad regretted. So my dad lost estimated – and I’ll explain that in a minute. I mean he lost, as you read, about 90 pounds of fat and gained probably between 20 and 30 pounds of muscle. However, because he didn’t have his starting body composition it was impossible to tell. Now he was 245-250 at 5′6″, so you can estimate based on a few things.
However, really he, like you said, regrets not having those starting points because it would have allowed him to appreciate his progress much more. He came very close to quitting a few times when his weight seemed to – it didn’t plateau, but instead of losing 20 pounds a month he was losing seven or eight pounds a month. And he was doubling and tripling his lifts over that same period of time. So he was very clearly gaining muscle, but because he hadn’t measured it, it looked like he was slowing down or plateauing which weren’t the case at all. So very, very important to get the baseline before you start.
And that’s true with blood testing too. I mean I’ve done thousands of blood tests. And one of the problems with doctors in the U.S., and I suspect probably most doctors in Canada as well, is that they’re very good at diagnosing a problem once it’s a problem. So you’ll get your blood test results back, and they’ll say, “Okay, this is out of range. We need to address that.” Or “This is out of range. We need to address that.” And the first thing a doctor will do, and I know a lot of good doctors, is they’ll scan through the sheet and see what’s out of range, and they’ll just pay attention to those because those are the problems.
However, if you do blood tests more frequently what you can see is if let’s say your albumen levels – or let’s say testosterone, something a little better known, is dropping 10% with each test over three months, six months, that’s a problem. And you can address that with an intervention really early if you catch it, but the doctor’s not going to do anything until it’s out of range and that’s when you have a really serious problem. So getting that baseline and looking at the trending is really, really important no matter what type of change you’re after.
Now, when your dad was going through those struggling periods. And a lot of people listening to this call are going to go through those same sorts of things. First of all, what were some of the things you said to him to get him to keep going? Was there some type of a force because it was going to be in the book? And then in addition to that, what technical points did you give him that kind of helped him get his weight loss back on track, or fat loss back on track?
Tim Ferriss: Yes, absolutely. So the first was it wasn’t that forced because it wasn’t clear that he was going to end up in the book at all. I prefer to keep my family out of the limelight as much as possible. So I don’t think that was a huge factor, the potential of being in the book.
The most important thing I did, one of the most important things, was to tell him when I expected he would have problems. When I expected that he would want to quit. And so the first thing I said is, “It’s normal.” Somost people face self-doubt and what they perceive as plateaus at a few different points. So the first is probably going to come two months after you start. So if you have a lot to weight to lose like he did, 250, he’ll lose 20 pounds the first month or 25 pounds and then let’s say 17 pounds the next month.
And then the third month is, it’s pretty consistent with most people. They’ll lose let’s just say less than 10 pounds. And not always the case but very frequently, and that’s when people get demoralized, and they look at what they perceive is a trend in slowing fat loss and they’re like, “Oh my God. The month after this I’m probably not going to lose any body fat.” And then they quit.
So I told him that’s going to happen. It doesn’t mean that you’re not losing body fat. It means that you’re gaining muscle most likely, increasing bone density, things like that. And I also then at that point said, “The way we’re going to address that and accelerate it so you feel like you’re making more progress is increasing your protein intake.” So we increased his protein intake and timed it such that he was consuming, I think it was 30 grams of protein within 30 minutes of waking up. That’s the easiest way to remember it.
And he went from – I’m lacking the exact numbers in front of me – but something like an average over three months of seven or eight pounds of fat loss per month to 17 pounds of fat loss per month as soon as he changed his timing of protein. Because my dad, like many people, would wake up, have a cup of coffee and do whatever, he was doing, read the newspaper for an hour to an hour-and-a-half before having his first meal. And that very negatively affects fat loss on a number of different levels.
The other point, this is actually related to my mom – my mom also lost 30 pounds – was water intake. So two of the most common mistakes that people make. Number one not consuming 30 grams of protein within 30 minutes of waking up, certainly within 60 minutes. And number two is really under consuming water. And for whatever reason women have more trouble with this than men. There are a lot of women who just dislike drinking water, which for whatever reason, and I don’t know why this is the case but it is true, much more common among women. So forcing people to have even just three or four more glasses, let’s say 12 ounce glasses of water per day, can make a significant difference.
Okay, well that’s easy enough. And hopefully people listening to the call will implement those two things if they’re struggling right now.
Tim Ferriss: Yes, absolutely. They’re simple. And the guiding question with this entire book, whether it was improving vertical jumps, hitting home runs, whatever – there are 50 topics in the book – the question was what are the smallest changes that produce the biggest results. And what you find is that you don’t have to do a complete overhaul of everything you do all at once. In fact, I think that’s usually a bad idea.
Rather you start by making a few small changes like eating 30 grams of protein in 30 minutes of waking up. Easy to remember, you make it part of your routine. And secondly, you might just replace the milk in your coffee with two teaspoons of cream, for example, and add some cinnamon to improve insulin sensitivity. Just by doing that – milk’s a very interesting one, but I’ve seen people who’ve stalled on the slow carb diet, the diet I describe in the book, one of the diets I described. And they removed just the dairy in their milk, and then they immediately lose an additional two to five pounds per week, which sounds unbelievable and it is on some of them, but for whatever reason, and I have some theories of mechanisms. That’s also the case. So if you start to add these small things together the cumulative results are pretty impressive.
Now that brings us to the MED definition that you have in the book, which is the minimum effective dose which is kind of one of the motto’s of the book is, like you said, getting the most results from small changes. And so can you explain a bit more about how that not only applies to fat loss, but also maybe use a training example as well.
Tim Ferriss: Sure. So the minimum effective dose really refers to looking at exercise like medicine. And it also applies to supplements and things like that, but let’s just talk about exercise. And this is borrowing very heavily from a doctor Doug McGuff. If you look at exercise like a does it’s not a case of more is better. And if you want to find the precise dose of exercise that gives you the result you’re looking for. And you want the minimal effective dose, because the higher the does the more the side effects. And that would be the main criterion for everything in the book.
The only way I felt I could differentiate this book by using the training that I had and the experience that I have in business and elsewhere – I also ran a sports nutrition company for eight years – was to try to find the smallest things that had the greatest impact. To give you a training example, so let’s just take the running – let me ask you this. Do you think more people listening are interested in endurance training or in let’s just say maximum strength?
Let’s error on the side of caution and say endurance training. There will probably be a lot of people interested in running a bit more.
Tim Ferriss: Okay. So what I did – in the case of running, I hate running. I really do. And my endurance is terrible because I was born premature and can’t use my left lung effectively. This has always been a problem. And not only do I overheat but my capacity, also my enzyme levels are terrible for endurance. So I wanted to target doing an ultra-marathon. And what I did in seeking out models and trainers was I tried to identify people with body types that didn’t fit ultra-endurance running. So you can certainly go to someone who’s 6′2″ and 120 pounds and ask them how they train and that might work, but they’re designed for running, for ultra-distance running just like Michael Phelps is designed for swimming. I’m 5′8″, 180 pounds, lean, muscular but that’s not an ability associated with long distance running.
So I found a few different people, a number of whom were between 5′8″ and 5′11″ let’s say and 190 pounds that could front squat 315 for reps who also ran 100 mile races. And those guys were the people who were interesting. What I found is that for a body type like that certainly you can’t train like many of the 6′2″, 120 pound guys train. Those guys will put in. It’s very routine, 20 to 40 hours a week of endurance training. And if you do that with more of a mesomorph type body type you don’t recover and your entire life suffers as a result of that; you get sick, your relationships are damaged, etc.
So the protocol that we ended up putting in the book which has been very effective, which took, like I mentioned before, The Rookie was his nickname, one of the trainees from, I think it was five miles to 50 miles, mountainous ultra-marathon in about 12 weeks was less than six hours of training per week. And that’s acombination of metabolic conditioning, strength training and not a single run of more than 10K. So to train for a 50 mile race no run longer than 10K, and most of the runs are 100 meter repeats, 400 meter repeats, 800 meter repeats. So it’s really turning everything on its head and allowing to train at a very low volume to accomplish something that’s very, very high volume.
And I’ve seen this in my own experience. I’m kettlebell, Russian kettlebell certified. So RKC1 and also RKC 2. And the RKC2 test, as well as RKC1, they’re quite demanding. The RKC2 certification is, if I remember correctly, I did it not too long ago, between eight and ten hours of training and exercises and practice for three days straight. That’s a lot of training. And to prepare for that I worked out for between I would say 15 and 30 minutes three times a week to prepare for that volume of training. And the rest of it was nutrition based, nutrition and supplementation based. So I think that those are two examples of just how little can go so far and do so much.
Yes, that’s a very powerful example with the kettlebell one. Now I don’t want to leave the strength training people out, so can you maybe do the strength training example as well that you maybe we’re going to give for the minimum effective dose?
Tim Ferriss: Yes, for sure. So I studied – I went all over the planet to find people I studied with. And I found combine specialists. I studied with power lifters, one of who was Mark Bell from Bigger, Faster, Stronger and trained at Westside. I met a lot of the best power lifters in the world, and also worked with quite a lot of swim coaches. I studied with Charlie Francis, who is famous for training Ben Johnson. Unfortunately, the steroid scandal affected how people viewed his training.
But to give you an example, of how I borrowed from sprinting to develop more maximal strength, I coached on the deadlift and I really feel that bang for the buck deadlift has to be one of, if not the best, barbell exercises you can do. There are a few other options, squat’s great as well, but really the deadlift I just view it as just about the king of the exercises. It works everything except for your pecs basically.
And I actually modeled my approach to the deadlift after that of a sprint coach based in Los Angeles through training – I’m trying to get her name right, I’m not going to remember her name – trained a high school athlete to break just about every world record they didn’t set for her distances. I think it was 100 meters. And then she went directly from high school to professional track and field. And the approach was very, very simple. It was three times a week doing one pressing movement, like the bench press, and then dead lifts.
And there was a very minimal warm up. Then there was the bench press where you’d do three sets of two to three reps. You’re looking at probably 90% to 95% of your one rep maxed for two to three reps, four to five minutes of rest in between, a few very brief, like 20 second – not even – 10 to 20 seconds of plyometrics after each set. So it would be like a set of two or three, 10 second of plyometrics, four minutes of rest, and then you repeat that two more times.
Then you move to the deadlifts, do the exact same thing. You’re doing sets of two to three, usually using a sumo deadlift stance. Your legs are wider so you can keep your back more upright. And then repeating the exact process. And you’re doing this either two or three times a week for most people. And this is how I went. I have very small hands, I have weak hands. So my weak link so to speak has always been my hands for the deadlift. I just couldn’t hold on to the bar. I felt like my back was stronger, my body was stronger, but my hands couldn’t hold onto the bar with more than about 300 pounds. I could pull 300 maybe once or twice and then I’d have to put it down because I felt like I was going to drop the bar.
About a month ago I did, and this was over the span of like six months, I did rack poles from my knees with about 630 pounds with double overhand grip with chalk, no wraps. So this is not an alternate grip, which is what you use to pull that kind of weight usually. This is a double overhand grip, not a hook grip. So it’s like the weakest grip I could use with chalk pulling 630 from the knees for three, I think it was. And it’s from the exact program I just described, and it’s amazing. It’s incredible. That volume, it’s something like less than two minutes of total time under tension per workout.
It’s just phenomenal how little it takes of the proper exercise, how small the dose can be to trigger in the type of response that you want. It’s really amazing. Now that’s not to say there isn’t a place for higher volume training. I do think that there can be, but in the book I wanted to just highlight, I wanted to highlight one or two methods for each that I was able to use for myself very effectively checkpoint number one, and then replicate it with other people checkpoint number two.
But I do think there can be a place for higher volume training. And to give you an example of that, what I would also do to supplement that list about 48 hours later usually, or by 48-72 hours before one of those max effort days. I tweaked the protocol slightly, and I would do high repetition kettlebell swings. So I would do literally one set of kettlebell swings with the heaviest weight that I could use for between 30 and 50 reps. And was able to progress from the 53 pounder, which I’ve done a fair amount of kettlebell stuff, so I can do an unbroken set for like 150-200 reps of that, up to the beast which I think is – it’s 48 kilograms. I’m not sure what it is in pounds. But it’s over 100 pounds for 52 reps.
And that was it, that’s the entire workout. And it’s not minimalism for the sake of minimalism. It’s not how little can I do to just eke out progress. It’s how much do I need to do to make the maximal amount of progress but without adding unnecessary workloads that’s going to affect my recovery. In that particular case, it’s a bit of a long answer, but that’s the approach that I took.
That’s a very important point, how little work to get maximum results. And like you said, not just to eke out the progress. So that’s some impressive stuff. And then one other thing that kind of relates to that you mentioned in the book was a comment that people shouldn’t try and just stay in peak shape all year round. Can you maybe comment on how that approach then connects with the training in the book and maybe give us some comforting words to people who are trying to stay at low body fat all year round and why it’s really hard to do that?
Tim Ferriss: Absolutely. I think at the end of the day the purpose of improving your physical machine, improving your body, is quality of life. So there has to be some translation of quality of life. And if you look at any of the top bodybuilders, fitness competitors, if you look at certainly power lifters. And the quote I used in the book was from Marty Gallagher, who coached Ed Coan. Ed Coan is the most successful power lifter in the history of the sport. He deadlifted 900 pounds at 200 pounds – or 220, it doesn’t really matter. It’s so ridiculous to be almost unbelievable. However, he said that trying to stay in peak condition all year round is a trip to the mental ward, and it’s true.
So what I prefer to attempt to do is to change my definition of peak conditions throughout the year. What I mean by that is for people who have only been going to the gym to lose body fat it is a lot of fun, and it reinvigorates you and gives you more scope and more enthusiasm if you start targeting other types of skills as well.
And what I mean by that is I only did the gym and then combat sports training, like kickboxing, for the longest time. And only in the last few years have I set aside, okay here are 12 weeks, I’m going to work on swimming. Here are 12 weeks. I’m going to work on distance running. Okay here are 12 weeks. I’m going to work on maximal deadlift. Here’s 12 weeks. I’m going to work on who knows, high repetition kettlebell presses, which is not something I did but hypothetically something like that. Here’s 12 weeks, I’m going to actually go to the batting cages and I’m going to learn how to be a homerun hitter. Something like that.
So varying the definition of peak condition so that it correlates to different goals I think is very, very valuable because mentally when a program becomes stale that’s generally when you also plateau and that’s when you also let yourself slide from your routine regardless. So you might as well plan for that and go in basically 12 week cycles with different objectives, because 12 weeks really is plenty of time to make incredible progress with any of the things I just mentioned.
I couldn’t swim at all. When I say swim I mean I could do one or two laps in an Olympic pool, and my heart rate would be at 200, and I’d get out of the pool and quit. I went from that because of my lung issues to swimming 40 laps, a workout with no problem in the span of one week just by looking at the biomechanics and tweaking the biomechanics with the help of a few coaches, and that’s also in the book. However, the changes do not have to take a long time.
There are a few exceptions to that. The one exception I would say is you want to be very careful with the maximal strength just because your muscular strength will far exceed your tendon and ligament strengths. You want to be very intelligent about that, because certainly if you go from 300 pounds to 600 pounds, or 200 pounds to 400 pounds overnight you can do some damage to yourself if you’re not careful. So you just have to – that’s another reason to build in, let’s say the higher rep of kettlebell swings, in between those workouts so you space your progress a bit more.
And then when somebody does those 12 weeks, they’re going to have that high level that, even if you kind of go away from the for a while you’re always going to have that built up so much better than if you tried to improve incrementally by a small amount over the course of a year. You’d actually be further ahead if you did 12 weeks of it hard core then took your time off.
Tim Ferriss: Absolutely. I totally agree. And the reason is related to one of the principles in The 4-Hour Workweek, which is Parkinson’s Law. So the complexity of the task will swell, fill the time that you have to complete it. So if you have a year and there’s no particular goal in mind it’s just to maintain – well, let’s just say the goal is to maintain a certain low body fat. You can be fairly sloppy if you have a year, somewhat disorganized. If you have 12 weeks to hit a performance goal that also produces the side effect, the physical benefits which I highly encourage.
I like people to have one physique goal, one type of appearance goal, and one type of performance goal. The performance goal is very important. Then suddenly you get a hell of a lot more done, number one. And number two, it just makes life more interesting. And as for me, I didn’t realize how much I was missing by only doing strength training all the time. I really didn’t realize how much I’ve missed maybe because I thought I couldn’t do those things. Running, you’ve got to be kidding me. I hate running. It makes me feel like I’m going to have a heart attack so I can’t run. That was assumption number one. Swimming, forget it. I almost drowned. My lung’s out of whack, can’t swim, assumption number two.
As soon as I fixed those things I go visit a friend in Tahoe, and he’s training for an Ironman. It’s like, “Yeah, let’s go swimming together. No problem.” I go to South Africa, and I meet with Timothy Noakes whose legendary for writing this book called the Lore of Running, it’s like the definitive guide to running on the planet. And he says, “Hey, you want to go for a run in the mountains?” “Sure, no problem.” And I can go running, and it’s not like I’m going to beat everybody, it’s not like I’m going to beat someone who ran 50 marathons. However, can I keep up with them for a decent run? Yes, absolutely, no problem. It makes life just a lot more fun. And you don’t have to always be clanking the plates together. You can actually get out and do other things. And for me that was a real breakthrough, and I’m hoping for many other people that will be true as well.
And that also applies to people who are just doing cardio or endurance stuff. It’s like if you’re just a lungs and legs person as they say, if you’re always doing cycling, and you’ve never done upper body pressing movements, like, “Dude, do some Westside. Then in 12 months getting really strong, and you’ll feel better about yourself.” And I think that there’s a lot to be said for diversifying your physical identity that way.
That’s a good way of putting things. Now completely switching gears, we definitely want to get into the fat loss hacking. So we’re going to start with the diet program that you used in there, the slow carb diet. If you can just start with an explanation of that, maybe the structure of the seven days, the meals, and then we’ll go from there.
Tim Ferriss: Yes. The slow carb diet is really, really simple, and I think that’s part of the reason it works. I attract hundreds of people following this prescription, have several thousand blog comments that I used also as feedback. The slow carb diet’s very straightforward. Really there are only a few rules. You can’t eat anything white. The only exception to that I can think of is cauliflower offhand. Cauliflower is fine, but you can’t eat bread. You can’t eat pasta. You’re going to get rid of grains, etc. Six days a week.
Okay, so you follow this diet six day a week, and you have one off day, one binge day so to speak. So don’t eat anything white, don’t drink your calories – so no milk, no fruit juice – don’t eat fruit. This is a controversial point that we can get into if you want, but fructose really stalls fat loss the way that most people consume it. Don’t eat fruit, certainly don’t drink fruit juice. Again, all these things apply six days a week. And then lean protein, 30 grams within 30 minutes of getting up.
So you’re basically eating vegetables and protein, very much a paleo-like diet, but you’re also adding in – and this is another controversial point – you’re also adding in legumes, things like lentils and beans and so forth like that just to maintain caloric load among other things. And that’s it.
And on the binge day you go nuts. So you spend one day a week, you do whatever the hell you want. There’s no calorie counting at all on the entire program. And on the binge day it doesn’t matter if you eat 10,000 calories, honestly. The last time, close to Halloween, that I had my binge day it was pretty disgusting. I’m not going to lie. This is really repulsive, but I bought all this candy, and I thought that I was going to have trick-or-theaters because I recently moved, and I got one trick-or-treater. So I bought all these Twix bars, and I ate two boxes of Twix bars, it’s like 3,000 calories of Twix bars, in about 20 minutes. I mean really disgusting behavior, but I like Twix, what can I say, and it was Halloween. So that type of behavior once a week will not throw you off course.
And I’ve been doing this for more than five years now. And that’s the exact diet, the exact same approach that my dad used, the exact same approach that many of the people in the book used to have lost more than 100 pounds. And it works. It works really effectively. It’s not complicated. It’s easy to follow if you travel, which can be more difficult with let’s say stricter varieties like paleo it can be more challenging if you’re in an airport, and you need to eat paleo, and you’re not allowed to have beans, for example. I just find that it’s very effective middle ground that allows people to be compliant for a much longer period of time. Fifty-eight percent of the people I tracked said it was the first diet, they’ve ever been able to follow. And that’s it, so that’s the slow carb diet.
That ends Part 2 of 3 of my interview with Tim about the “4-Hour Body”. I know that info will help you, but it gets even better in the rest of the interview.;
- Why red wine is the most acceptable alcohol on a fat loss program (controversial)
- The Cheat Meal vs Cheat Day Debate
- His amazing step-by-step plan for maximizing a cheat meal
- The one weird thing he puts on a pizza.
Now, there was one thing that was kind of surprising in there is that you said red wine was okay, beer and white wine are not. Can you just explain that? Some people are going to be super-duper happy to hear that.
Tim Ferriss: Yes. And I will be honest. I think part of it is just me trying to rationalize why I can drink red wine because I love red wine. But there’s actually some science behind it. So it has to do with residual sugar, and it has to do with glycemic index – or glycemic load I should say. Now there are things that are wrong with the glycemic load.
We don’t have to get into the really technical side to that, but the short and sweet of it is beer almost always contains maltose. And it triggers a tremendously high insulin response. So if you could design the perfect foods for gaining fat you’d probably at the top of the list have beer and then doughnuts. I would say those are probably right up there neck-and-neck. So if you’re drinking beer just imagine you’re eating doughnuts. That’s roughly the effect that you’re having on your body composition.
The residual sugar, meaning the sugar that’s left after fermentation, in white wine tends to be much higher than in red wine. So I have not seen any negative effect in drinking one or two glasses of red wine let’s say four or five nights a week. You certainly don’t have to do it that often. But I like red wine. I live in Northern California, in the middle of wine country, so I’ve tested this with myself and other people. And really I haven’t seen a tremendous negative impact from drinking red wine at all. Once you exceed two glasses for most people, once you really start to place a burden on the liver, then yes there is an impact. But if you’re moderate and you’re doing one or two glasses to wind down at night, I don’t see any problem with it.
And then another question in there are some people just say one cheat meal per week and then some of you guys will be about the cheat day. So can you explain just a little more about why you do that. And then we’ll get into – you have a really cool structure for your cheat day that helps you maybe maximize results. So just do the cheat day question and then go right into that structure.
Tim Ferriss: Sure. It’s primarily psychological. It’s less about the physiology and more about the psychology. As you noticed in the book, the first 50 pages or so are dedicated to failure proofing whatever program you decide to go on. It’s like how do you buy insurance against the worst of human nature, so that you actually succeed with what you’re doing as opposed to quitting or missing workouts or whatever. And the psychology is very important. So, in this particular case when people have a cheat meal, if you can pull it off fantastic.
There are a few reasons why the women I still suggest a cheat day. Some women if they’re for whatever reason restricting calories, if they don’t get that binge day and a spike in calories they’ll have issues with menstruating and all sorts of things. And this is true on any diet. So having that one day a week if you’re doing any type of low body fat dieting is I think very helpful.
But for most people if they have a cheat meal they will either have more than a single cheat meal when they have their cheat meal, or they’ll have a really, really big extended cheat meal and they’ll feel guilty about it and feel like they went off of their program. And as soon as someone feels like they’ve broken their promise to themselves the next step is usually saying, “Well, look, I’ve already blown it for today and tomorrow so I may as well just eat whatever, I want tomorrow as well.” And that type of psychological response is really consistent.
So to avoid that I just say, “Look, from when you wake up to when you go to bed you can eat whatever the hell you want on Saturday,” or whatever you cheat day is. I always use Saturday, and I recommend people use Saturday – Friday or Saturday. And it’s just proven to be more effective is the bottom line when I’ve done it with people who have a lot of weight to lose. Now if you’re a body builder, or if you’re trying to get to let’s say sub 8% body fat or – yes, let’s say sub 8%, which is really low. Most people when you ask them what your body fat is, they’re like, “yeah. I’m like 8% or 9%.” No way dude, you’re 14%.
Like I mean for most people 8%, like you have veins on your abs. I know it sounds crazy but just having done hundreds of body fat tests, 8% is really, really ripped for most people, especially if they have some muscle mass. But let’s say you want to get sub 8%, then maybe a cheat meal makes sense. When doing something a little more advanced like cycling calories make a lot of sense. And that can make sense even when you have more weight to lose, but it’s not something I focused on.
In terms of the structure of the cheat day, there are a couple of things you can do to minimize the fat gain during that cheat day. The first is to just make your first meal so you wake up, and you have one small non-binge meal. So my default tends to be one or two whole eggs – free-range organic eggs – two whole eggs with some spinach and vegetables, like in a small bowl. It’s not a big meal. And that will slightly inhibit your appetite for the rest of the day. And it’s not a bad thing. My next meal is usually I’ll walk down the hill to my favorite bakery, and I’ll get two chocolate crescents, a big cup of coffee and grapefruit juice. And there are reasons for this.
So the grapefruit juice, you’ll notice I’m breaking my rule but this is my day off. If you have fructose, especially something like grapefruit juice, it flat lines your glucose response. It can help prevent huge glucose spikes when you eat a bunch of crap. So I will make a point of having this early I the day on my binge day. It also solves fat loss. But here’s the thing. It solves fat loss, but for this particular day it will minimize fat gain. So those are two different things, but it’s important to realize the difference.
The caffeine is also important. You don’t have to consume caffeine, but by having coffee, and I’ll do this two or three time throughout the day, it increases the speed of gastric emptying, so the speed at which food leaves your stomach and passes through your digestive tract. So what does that mean? That means you’re absorbing through your calories. So there’s a message to that madness as well.
And then throughout the day you can use various types of tricks. In the chapter “Damage Control” one of them very simple would be just getting the juice from let’s say three to four limes or lemon wedges and consuming than before you have your meal, which when I tested – I had a medical device implanted in my sides to measure blood glucose 24/7 for about three weeks and tracked everything – it tends to lower the blood sugar response by at least 10%. And that’s significant if you compound it over time. Cinnamon also very helpful. So I always put cinnamon in my coffee at the same time I have the pastries, which is usually my second crappiest meal of the day.
Lunch I might have let’s just say Thai food with some rice. I usually don’t have rice, but I’ll have Thai food with rice because I love rice if I’m allowed to have it. And then for dinner that’s when I’ll also go crazy, so I might have a huge full pizza, wild nettle pizza with an egg on top with some wine and then afterwards I’ll have an espresso and some ice cream. And that’s pretty much what it looks like.
You can also use exercise very effectively during that day to minimize fat gain by understanding how you can increase insulin sensitivity. I won’t go into all the details, but there are a lot of things you can do to prevent fat gain while binging. So this is also very helpful for times like Christmas or Thanksgiving or New Years.
I’m sorry, you put an egg on a pizza?
Tim Ferriss: Oh man, it’s delicious. Yes, absolutely. It’s like a soft cooked sunny-side up egg on a wild nettles with proscuitto pizza. It’s the greatest thing. You put it right in the middle. It’s so delicious. I highly recommend it.
Wow, that’s some impressive stuff. Now there’s one term that you mentioned in the book called “deferred eating”. Can you explain how you use that to get through the week to the cheat meal?
Tim Ferriss: Sure. So many of the people who use the slow carb diet, particularly in the first two weeks. Past the first two weeks, it’s usually not very hard. The hard part of any new dietary approach, any lifestyle change like this, is finding your default meals. Once you find what your default meals are, like your two or three meals you have for breakfast, you two or three meals you have for lunch, which everyone has. People overestimate the variety of their diet. But you look at what you ate for breakfast this last week, how many of those were the same two meals? Pretty much all of them for most people. So once you find your default meals you’re usually fine.
In the first two weeks you’re like, “Oh my God, I just want to have some pasta. Oh my God, I just want to have macaroni.” Or “Oh my God, I just want to have a sandwich, and I need bread.” You just take a note and write down all those things that you want to have, and you just put “For Sunday” or “For Binge Day”. And you write down all the things you’re going to eat on Saturday, and that consistently reminds you, “I’m not giving up this food forever. I’m just giving it up for three days, two days, one day. Bang, now I can do whatever, I want.”
And then why don’t you go over some of the exercise tips quickly.
Tim Ferriss: Which exercise tips? I’m happy to go into whatever you like.
Like just the body weight exercises you did.
Tim Ferriss: Oh, right. So I’ll give a simple one because I think for most people they may not want to do the air spots or chest pulls, things like that. So you can increase your muscle cell’s ability to absorb carbohydrates by doing some contractions, muscular contractions, around the time of your meal. So usually what I’ll do is I’ll have an appetizer and then when my entrée arrives, I’ll go to the bathroom, this is really simple, and put my hands on the wall about shoulder width apart at shoulder height. And then I’ll move my feet back – so I’m standing straight up – I’ll move my feet back let’s say foot-and-a-half or two feet, so I’m leaning forward into my hands. And then
I’ll just do tricep extensions. And do 30 or 40 of those. Give the 15 minute section of
Complete Mobile Workout
a shot.
And what that’s going to do – I did a lot of research into what are called glucose transporters – and that’s enough to open the channels and allow more carbohydrates to make it into your muscles, in this case your upper body musculature, as opposed to being put right on your abdomen. So that’s another approach to minimizing fat gain when you have to overeat, or when you choose to overeat.
Very nice, very nice. And then one other thing that you mentioned in there, in the book, not related to the cheat meal per se, but for weighing for women that – what was it, the 10 days before menstruation you should just kind of like not even acknowledging those weights because that’s when the water retention is occurring?
Tim Ferriss: Yes, exactly right. That’s another way that women can get derailed is if they misinterpret water weight associated with menstruation with some type of plateau awaken. So I don’t know the exact number of days, but I do recommend that they avoid a certain period around menstruation. And just avoid the body weight completely. Don’t pay attention to the scale for that period of time. Absolutely.
Okay. And another rapid fire question. You had almost every single method of body fat measurement done. Which one would you choose if you were going to try and go for the most accurate and reliable method, if there were no limitations?
Tim Ferriss: Yes. If there were no limitations, I’d say my first choice is probably something called DEXA, which is – it is usually a GE device. It’s used for measuring osteoporosis. It’s used for looking at bone density very often. But you lay down on this bed. It’s a full body scan. And the radiation risk is low to my knowledge, compared to CAT scans, x-rays, etc. And not only do you get your body fat composition, but you get to see the mass analysis. So if you have some type of muscular imbalance that could produce an injury later you’ll see that very clearly. You also get your bone information. So if you can do that for $50 to $100, I highly recommend doing it. And so it’s either D-X-A or D-E-X-A.
My second choice would be – it’s kind of a tie. I’d say the one that people will probably have the access to if they look for it is Bod Pod, B-O-D P-O-D, its just bodpod.com. You can find locators. This is a cool device. It’s actually a chamber that you sit inside, and it’s like a space capsule. And they use pressurized air to determine your body fat composition. It’s pretty wild. But it basically replicates hydrostatic weighing, underwater weighing that’s considered the gold standard. It’s as accurate as the hydrostatic weighing, but you’re not wet, and you don’t have to hold your breath. Not really, you hold your breath like a second when they take it. But you sit in this capsule, and it’s all done with air. So those would be the two recommendations.
If you can’t do that, if you’re going to use calipers, which is most common. So if you go to a gym, and you’re going to have someone take your caliper reading, it’s very important that you have at least three points and that one of those measurements is a leg measurement. If you leave the leg measurement out forget about the body fat percentage that you see as a result. It’s telling you your upper body, body fat percentage. But if you want something for your whole body you need a leg measurement.
What I would recommend is they use different algorithms, different equations. If you go in use the same person every time to do your measurement, and ask them to use what’s called the Jackson Pollock algorithm, much like the artist. Yes, Jackson Pollock is the one that I would recommend as being most reliable from my experiences.
Awesome, that’s great. And then just before we go, before we finish up here, why don’t you just tell us what you had the most fun learning about in the book, excluding the sex chapter which I’m sure was obviously probably the most fun. And again, anybody listening to the call I’m just going to leave you hanging. You’ll have to go read that one yourself. But what about the training staff? Kettlebells, the running, the deadlifting.
Tim Ferriss: The most fun for me was – I’m really tied, but I think I know which one is the winner. I’d say the maximal strength. I mean putting 20-30 pounds on your deadlift almost every time you go in is crazy. I mean that’s just, it really kind of blows your mind. That was incredible, number two. And actually the first place winner would be the swimming. The swimming was one of my biggest embarrassments and insecurities for my entire life, and I fixed it in one week. That just completely changed my paradigm, of how I looked at everything that I thought was impossible. I had given up so many times. I had tried so many classes and just given up, completely given up on being able to swim. And I went from two laps to about 40 laps a workout in a week. And then very soon thereafter was swimming a mile open water in the ocean. I mean it’s crazy. It’s completely unbelievable to me, even now, that I was able to do that. And it’s very easy to replicate.
So for me, I would say that was probably the most eye-opening and certainly the most – of some of the training, the most gratifying for me just because it had been such a fear and insecurity for so long. I would say that those would be two of the highlights out of many.
That was very cool. Well, I highly recommend everyone grab the book. It’s a nice Christmas for you or for someone else. It’s literally a handbook and a guidebook to making your life a whole lot better pretty quickly. So, Tim, is there anything else you want to mention about the book or anything at all about the topic before we close off?
Tim Ferriss: Sure, absolutely. There are two things I would say. The first is that if you want to improve productivity, business performance, relationships, whatever it might be, there’s a lot of research done on this. I won’t bore you with the particulars, but improving your physical machine, your physical body, is the absolute most effective way to do that. It affects everything else. That would be number one. So if you’ve accepted any type of genetically supposedly genetically fixed limitation, endurance, strength, fat loss, whatever, this is the right time to really test those assumptions because I’ve yet to see more than a handful of cases of anything that can’t be fixed with the proper training and nutrition in terms of body composition and performance.
The last thing I would say is that if people are interested, I had to cut between 100 and 150 pages of content from the book just because the publisher was concerned with the cost of printing. They’re good chapters. It’s just the cost of printing. Some of them include things like spot reduction. I actually kept it topical approaches to fat loss, which ends up working on the abdomen and thighs, things like that, genetics testing, so how do you determine what type of supplement you’ll respond to or not respond to, things like that.
Yes, yes, it really was. And we’ve met a couple of times, and we had a good time learning how to kill terrorists and drive cars in a short amount of time. We did that this year. And so it was just like your book, it was concentrated learning, and you leave with a skill set that if you try to do it half-hazardly you wouldn’t have accomplished in two or three months. So it’s really just a focused block of time and then away you go.
Tim Ferriss: Absolutely, agreed. So thank so much for having me.
Is there a way that people can resource on the internet?
Tim Ferriss: Yes, absolutely. So if you’re in a place – if you just want to check out all the crazy stuff that, case studies, or if you’re not in a place financially to get the book also totally fine. Just go to CKOtrainer.com And there’re tons of stuff. I’ve got 300 different posts, all categorized. You can search by popularity.
Awesome, that’s great stuff. So everyone, have a great day. Check out that book. And I look forward to hearing about your maximum results in minimum time experiments from The 4-Hour Body. Bye-bye everyone.
PS – By the way, you definitely need to get this book…
…it covers fat loss, secrets to amazing sex, better sleep, running long distances faster (without a lot of running), getting stronger, amazing sex, and becoming a better athlete…oh yeah, and secrets to amazing sex. There might also be a massive sextion devoted to better sex. I think.
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4-hour body interview with Tim Ferriss, about cheat meals, and more.interview, cheat meal, deadlifting, four hour body, rapid fat loss, tim ferriss